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[vmv-81]

Actually I dare to claim that choosing Megatron's mold for decepticon leader was Hasbro's biggest mistake when launching Transformers toyline. I know the logic behind the choice (same price point as OP), but in the longer run the choice was bad. Turning Megatron into tank was a logical step from Hasbro.

I don't agree. The concept with Megatron is the same as with Soundwave and the cassetticons (?), they are supposed to be in the same size as human objects in the cartoon, and they grow in molecular structure when transforming.
I really can't see why it would be more logical to make Megatron a tank instead of a gun. He could have been a jet or something 3rd.
If Megatron is a "mistake" from Hasbro so Shockwave would be that too in my opinion, a sci-fi lasergun which doesn't run with the original concept, but is saved by the fact that he's supposed to be left behind on cybertron in his original shape and therefore his shape was "legal".
If Megatron should have been something else than a gun, then I'd better see him as a Humvee with a TOW launcher on the roof that would make out his fusion cannon.

Well, in my opinion (as I've said before) P38 as a Megatron's alt mode is way too puny for a mighty Decepticon leader. TOW launcher on a Hummer could look like a fusion cannon, but otherwise Hummer would, IMHO, lack the power and pride of the tank mode of G2 and Armada Megs. G1 Galvatron's cannon mode wasn't bad either, at least it was Transformer-sized, not human-sized. Megatron (or Galvatron) as a jet is not such a bad idea, but somehow I think that as Megatron is one of the strongest, he's also one of the heaviest and therefore would not be very good in flying.

[Osku]

Not having nostalgic attachment to original Megatron gun toy, I don't quite see the appeal for this version (if it's real of course). I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe cartoon accurate non-transforming figure (robot mode naturally) would be better choice for Megatron homage?

[Osku]

How does Optimus Prime's truck mode fit his character... it's hard to see that a red MAC represents the awesome power and wisdom of a leader. A truck is a work horse designed to carry loads, and doens't need to be that bright !.
The only way I see the MAC design work on Optimus is because the front looks like his body design ! musculus arms and breast and a "six pack/ washboard" stomach = he looks very athletic.

OP's truck mode is larger than other early autobots. OP can for example carry other wounded autobots in the carrier. Also, OP's character is different from Megatron. OP doesn't lead by force.

The same goes for Megatrons design. Broad shoulders, and chest part, with a slim belly and hips and a very sleek deign too.
The part of the TransFormers concept is more than meets the eye, which in my mind also goes beyond appearances.
E.g who would guess that little Brawn and Huffer were among some of the strongest autobots ? well that's more than defintely meets the eye at first glance... it's also the concept of looks can be decieving.

Toy or animation model? Toy in robot mode looks weak and fragile and is very little like animation model.

Huffer and Brawn are also examples of not so succesful concepts. What makes Brawn so powerful? Why wasn't the technology used in building him used on other bots? My problem with these concepts, or for example Cliffjumper's ridiculously powerful "glass gun", is that those are not believable. Same applies to Megatron's gun mode.

Who would guess that a P38 gun would be one of the mightiest characters?

No-one, and that's the problem. How does the small gun mode, which isn't mobile and is dependant of other decepticon to fire, fit Megatron's character? How is gun mode powerful or useful?

I dont say that the tank is a cliché in TransFormers as such, but it's always represented in some way on another as the object the gets you out of trouble or is very powerfull... it's in that way I think of it.

Also if you think about it, the Decepticons never had ground vehicles as such before the Stunticons, they were all airborne or had the ability to fly in robot mode. Having a groundbased designed leader while all they others would fly or be stationary objects in robot mode would seem some kind of akward.

At no point have I said that Megatron should have been tank when Transformers line was introduced. When Megatron was upgraded in G2, situation of flyers and ground based decepticons was completely different.

And if you're approaching this from cartoon perspective(?), all the decepticons were able to fly regardless of their alternate modes.

[SureShot]

I honestly don't understand the complaints that Megatron's legs look to weak or that his fusion cannon is too big. You do realize that his alt.mode is that of a real-world gun, don't you? Those are the limits that Takara has to work with. They can't decrease the size of the scope/fusion cannon, or increase the size of the legs, for the simple reason that the shape of the real-world gun prevents it. Is that so hard to understand?

I totally agree... I really dont see the problem... Now we finally have Megatron back as what he freakin' is supposed to be ! a P38 gun and a robot with a big bad arse fusion cannon.
I   it.


But I have to admit that the Gen.2 Megatron green tank wasn't a bad mold either (his head mould is awesome). I liked/like it but I dont prefer it.

[Groundsplitter]

Edit by Osku: Discussion splitted from MP Megatron thread. Manually and possibly a bit roughly, which I apologize. Forum software ismn't useful in these kind of situations.

---

I honestly don't understand the complaints that Megatron's legs look to weak or that his fusion cannon is too big. You do realize that his alt.mode is that of a real-world gun, don't you? Those are the limits that Takara has to work with. They can't decrease the size of the scope/fusion cannon, or increase the size of the legs, for the simple reason that the shape of the real-world gun prevents it. Is that so hard to understand?

[Psychotron]

Groundsplitter: As a matter of fact, I like MP's legs. Though a bit wide, they remind me of the original toy. I know the MPs are supposed to be as show-accurate as possible, but for me the original Megs toy has so many playing hours worth of nostalgy behind it, that I take it as a good thing.

[Osku]

I totally agree... I really dont see the problem... Now we finally have Megatron back as what he freakin' is supposed to be ! a P38 gun and a robot with a big bad arse fusion cannon.
I   it.

-snip-

But I have to admit that the Gen.2 Megatron green tank wasn't a bad mold either (his head mould is awesome). I liked/like it but I dont prefer it.

I think the picture you posted shows the biggest problem (not counting the problem it was very fragile) with the toy. It looks very little like the cartoon model.

Actually I dare to claim that choosing Megatron's mold for decepticon leader was Hasbro's biggest mistake when launching Transformers toyline. I know the logic behind the choice (same price point as OP), but in the longer run the choice was bad. Turning Megatron into tank was a logical step from Hasbro.

[SureShot]

I totally agree... I really dont see the problem... Now we finally have Megatron back as what he freakin' is supposed to be ! a P38 gun and a robot with a big bad arse fusion cannon.
I   it.

-snip-

But I have to admit that the Gen.2 Megatron green tank wasn't a bad mold either (his head mould is awesome). I liked/like it but I dont prefer it.

I think the picture you posted shows the biggest problem (not counting the problem it was very fragile) with the toy. It looks very little like the cartoon model.

Actually I dare to claim that choosing Megatron's mold for decepticon leader was Hasbro's biggest mistake when launching Transformers toyline. I know the logic behind the choice (same price point as OP), but in the longer run the choice was bad. Turning Megatron into tank was a logical step from Hasbro.

I don't agree. The concept with Megatron is the same as with Soundwave and the cassetticons (?), they are supposed to be in the same size as human objects in the cartoon, and they grow in molecular structure when transforming.
I really can't see why it would be more logical to make Megatron a tank instead of a gun. He could have been a jet or something 3rd.
If Megatron is a "mistake" from Hasbro so Shockwave would be that too in my opinion, a sci-fi lasergun which doesn't run with the original concept, but is saved by the fact that he's supposed to be left behind on cybertron in his original shape and therefore his shape was "legal".
If Megatron should have been something else than a gun, then I'd better see him as a Humvee with a TOW launcher on the roof that would make out his fusion cannon.

[palaste]

Actually I dare to claim that choosing Megatron's mold for decepticon leader was Hasbro's biggest mistake when launching Transformers toyline. I know the logic behind the choice (same price point as OP), but in the longer run the choice was bad. Turning Megatron into tank was a logical step from Hasbro.

I don't agree. The concept with Megatron is the same as with Soundwave and the cassetticons (?), they are supposed to be in the same size as human objects in the cartoon, and they grow in molecular structure when transforming.
I really can't see why it would be more logical to make Megatron a tank instead of a gun. He could have been a jet or something 3rd.
If Megatron is a "mistake" from Hasbro so Shockwave would be that too in my opinion, a sci-fi lasergun which doesn't run with the original concept, but is saved by the fact that he's supposed to be left behind on cybertron in his original shape and therefore his shape was "legal".
If Megatron should have been something else than a gun, then I'd better see him as a Humvee with a TOW launcher on the roof that would make out his fusion cannon.

Well, in my opinion (as I've said before) P38 as a Megatron's alt mode is way too puny for a mighty Decepticon leader. TOW launcher on a Hummer could look like a fusion cannon, but otherwise Hummer would, IMHO, lack the power and pride of the tank mode of G2 and Armada Megs. G1 Galvatron's cannon mode wasn't bad either, at least it was Transformer-sized, not human-sized. Megatron (or Galvatron) as a jet is not such a bad idea, but somehow I think that as Megatron is one of the strongest, he's also one of the heaviest and therefore would not be very good in flying.

Well, Megatron has already been a jet. He's also been a sports car. And if we're counting all toylines, he's also even been a crocodile, a Tyrannosaurus Rex, a dragon, a weird alien (I don't know exactly what that was supposed to be...) and a disembodied head.

[Osku]

I totally agree... I really dont see the problem... Now we finally have Megatron back as what he freakin' is supposed to be ! a P38 gun and a robot with a big bad arse fusion cannon.
I  :love: it.

-snip-

But I have to admit that the Gen.2 Megatron green tank wasn't a bad mold either (his head mould is awesome). I liked/like it but I dont prefer it.

I think the picture you posted shows the biggest problem (not counting the problem it was very fragile) with the toy. It looks very little like the cartoon model.

Actually I dare to claim that choosing Megatron's mold for decepticon leader was Hasbro's biggest mistake when launching Transformers toyline. I know the logic behind the choice (same price point as OP), but in the longer run the choice was bad. Turning Megatron into tank was a logical step from Hasbro.

I don't agree. The concept with Megatron is the same as with Soundwave and the cassetticons (?), they are supposed to be in the same size as human objects in the cartoon, and they grow in molecular structure when transforming.
I really can't see why it would be more logical to make Megatron a tank instead of a gun. He could have been a jet or something 3rd.
If Megatron is a "mistake" from Hasbro so Shockwave would be that too in my opinion, a sci-fi lasergun which doesn't run with the original concept, but is saved by the fact that he's supposed to be left behind on cybertron in his original shape and therefore his shape was "legal".
If Megatron should have been something else than a gun, then I'd better see him as a Humvee with a TOW launcher on the roof that would make out his fusion cannon.

vmv-81 already mentioned few of my points, but...

Gun alternate mode doesn't fit the kind of character Megatron was portrayed. A strong, ruthless leader who ruled by power. Turning into a gun alternate mode that is not useful unless some other decepticon uses it/him makes no sense. It's no coincidence that Megatron's alternate mode is used so little in comics and cartoon.

Soundwave's situation is completely different, as his alternate mode fits the character; Soundwave doesn't act through strength but through knowledge and intelligence.

If we're talking about what Megatron should have been originally, we must remember the limitations Hasbro had, in other words available molds from Microman and Diaclone lines plus few other toylines. In my opinion Shockwave mold would have been much better choice; it's mobile and strong in both modes and threateningly alien looking.

[SureShot]

I totally agree... I really dont see the problem... Now we finally have Megatron back as what he freakin' is supposed to be ! a P38 gun and a robot with a big bad arse fusion cannon.
I   it.

-snip-

But I have to admit that the Gen.2 Megatron green tank wasn't a bad mold either (his head mould is awesome). I liked/like it but I dont prefer it.

I think the picture you posted shows the biggest problem (not counting the problem it was very fragile) with the toy. It looks very little like the cartoon model.

Actually I dare to claim that choosing Megatron's mold for decepticon leader was Hasbro's biggest mistake when launching Transformers toyline. I know the logic behind the choice (same price point as OP), but in the longer run the choice was bad. Turning Megatron into tank was a logical step from Hasbro.

I don't agree. The concept with Megatron is the same as with Soundwave and the cassetticons (?), they are supposed to be in the same size as human objects in the cartoon, and they grow in molecular structure when transforming.
I really can't see why it would be more logical to make Megatron a tank instead of a gun. He could have been a jet or something 3rd.
If Megatron is a "mistake" from Hasbro so Shockwave would be that too in my opinion, a sci-fi lasergun which doesn't run with the original concept, but is saved by the fact that he's supposed to be left behind on cybertron in his original shape and therefore his shape was "legal".
If Megatron should have been something else than a gun, then I'd better see him as a Humvee with a TOW launcher on the roof that would make out his fusion cannon.

vmv-81 already mentioned few of my points, but...

Gun alternate mode doesn't fit the kind of character Megatron was portrayed. A strong, ruthless leader who ruled by power. Turning into a gun alternate mode that is not useful unless some other decepticon uses it/him makes no sense. It's no coincidence that Megatron's alternate mode is used so little in comics and cartoon.

Soundwave's situation is completely different, as his alternate mode fits the character; Soundwave doesn't act through strength but through knowledge and intelligence.

If we're talking about what Megatron should have been originally, we must remember the limitations Hasbro had, in other words available molds from Microman and Diaclone lines plus few other toylines. In my opinion Shockwave mold would have been much better choice; it's mobile and strong in both modes and threateningly alien looking.

If Shockwave was the leader it wouldn't be within the natural feel of Generation 1. Vehicles and other things that were present in real life.
No other mode fits Megatron better than a gun. Maybe a fixed gun battery/gun emplacement. But making him into a tank is such a used cliché it hurts IMO, making him a gun eventhough he came from the Diaclone line was a far more original idea - because it was so unusual.
In my opinion if it's not a Megatron in gun mode, especially P38, it's not a real Megatron at all

[Osku]

If Shockwave was the leader it wouldn't be within the natural feel of Generation 1. Vehicles and other things that were present in real life.

Agreed, it'd have changed concept a bit. But I don't find it hard to imagine Shockwave mold as Decepticon leader (see my earlier post for why). Shockwave worked well in comics plus the "real life" objects was sacrificed early both in comics and cartoon when Dinobots were introduced.

No other mode fits Megatron better than a gun. Maybe a fixed gun battery/gun emplacement. But making him into a tank is such a used cliché it hurts IMO, making him a gun eventhough he came from the Diaclone line was a far more original idea - because it was so unusual.
In my opinion if it's not a Megatron in gun mode, especially P38, it's not a real Megatron at all  :D

How does the small gun mode, which isn't mobile and is dependant of other decepticon to fire, fit Megatron's character?

I really don't understand how making Megatron a tank for the first time was a cliche. Also when the concept was made in the early 80's there was no available tank mold, unless I'm forgetting something. Blitzwing was too small to be a counterpart for Optimus, otherwise it'd have fit well IMO.

[SureShot]

If Shockwave was the leader it wouldn't be within the natural feel of Generation 1. Vehicles and other things that were present in real life.

Agreed, it'd have changed concept a bit. But I don't find it hard to imagine Shockwave mold as Decepticon leader (see my earlier post for why). Shockwave worked well in comics plus the "real life" objects was sacrificed early both in comics and cartoon when Dinobots were introduced.

No other mode fits Megatron better than a gun. Maybe a fixed gun battery/gun emplacement. But making him into a tank is such a used cliché it hurts IMO, making him a gun eventhough he came from the Diaclone line was a far more original idea - because it was so unusual.
In my opinion if it's not a Megatron in gun mode, especially P38, it's not a real Megatron at all  

How does the small gun mode, which isn't mobile and is dependant of other decepticon to fire, fit Megatron's character?

I really don't understand how making Megatron a tank for the first time was a cliche. Also when the concept was made in the early 80's there was no available tank mold, unless I'm forgetting something. Blitzwing was too small to be a counterpart for Optimus, otherwise it'd have fit well IMO.

Yes the dinobots changed the appearance but still not so significantly that it wasn't obvious they were dinosaurs... something people could relate to. But the dinobots weren't in the 84 line as far as i know.

How does Optimus Prime's truck mode fit his character... it's hard to see that a red MAC represents the awesome power and wisdom of a leader. A truck is a work horse designed to carry loads, and doens't need to be that bright !.
The only way I see the MAC design work on Optimus is because the front looks like his body design ! musculus arms and breast and a "six pack/ washboard" stomach = he looks very athletic.
The same goes for Megatrons design. Broad shoulders, and chest part, with a slim belly and hips and a very sleek deign too.
The part of the TransFormers concept is more than meets the eye, which in my mind also goes beyond appearances.
E.g who would guess that little Brawn and Huffer were among some of the strongest autobots ? well that's more than defintely meets the eye at first glance... it's also the concept of looks can be decieving.

Who would guess that a P38 gun would be one of the mightiest characters ?.
If you look at Trypticon or Metroplex, it would quite be obvious they are both very powerfull, you wouldn't expect them to be weak, but what if they were ?.

I dont say that the tank is a cliché in TransFormers as such, but it's always represented in some way on another as the object the gets you out of trouble or is very powerfull... it's in that way I think of it.
Also if you think about it, the Decepticons never had ground vehicles as such before the Stunticons, they were all airborne or had the ability to fly in robot mode. Having a groundbased designed leader while all they others would fly or be stationary objects in robot mode would seem some kind of akward.

[Groundsplitter]

How does Optimus Prime's truck mode fit his character... it's hard to see that a red MAC represents the awesome power and wisdom of a leader. A truck is a work horse designed to carry loads, and doens't need to be that bright !.
The only way I see the MAC design work on Optimus is because the front looks like his body design ! musculus arms and breast and a "six pack/ washboard" stomach = he looks very athletic.

Just a nitpick: Optimus Prime isn't a Mack truck. He's a Freightliner.

[SureShot]

We can agree on that we totally disagree

I don't care about the toy sizes as such as representative for the figure - large or small, that's not the core of it.
Yes O. Prime can store a minibot in his trailer but that's not the point.

The Optimus Prime toy does like his Megtron counterpart toy not exactly look like the ones in the cartoon, but there are limits on what is possible in detail if you're going for a broad market where the figures are ment as toys and not expensive display figures. It's IMO unfair to make such a comparission.
Also if the cartoon figures looked exactly like the toys it would seem akward.

An ant can lift 300-400times its own weight - that is quite impressive, a cat can jump 9times it's own height, a human can usaully just lift his/hers own bodyweight if not less and jump less than half his/her height.... so what is so unbelieable ?
Also it's sci-fi so there's place for the unbelievable.

So you don't think it's a nice twist to see a design you didn't think was the primary character ? you rather have the bubble burst but make the most brute looks the 1st choice ?.
Also I'm 99% sure I've seen that in one of the G.1 episode but can't remember which one, that Megatron can fire by himself in gun mode with no assistance.

It's correct you didn't say that Megatron should have been a tank, but I assumed that since you pointed it out that would have been a preference of yours.
What could you imagine G.1 Megatron to be other than a gun ?

Regarding their flying, yes I was telling that the Decepticons can fly no matter what alternate mode they have. Not all autobots can that.

Anyway we can discuss that infintely because we all have our own opinions and view of what and who the real Megatron is/was