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[SureShot]

As a historian I'm used to backup my argumentation with a scource... ok I'll stop that in the future and make unsupported claims. As of the two clips he changes to gunmode for maximum firepower to send the core into space to explode. In the second, well it's actually Prime that transforms him into gun-mode to shoot the substance because Megatron is badly beaten up there.
Any way I give up on it too.

[Osku]

As a historian I'm used to backup my argumentation with a scource... ok I'll stop that in the future and make unsupported claims.

Sorry, wrote the earlier message badly.

I haven't asked you to "make unsupported claims". It's possible to write "Megatron fires himself in gun in episode X" and "Megatron can be seen bigger than human held gun in episodes X and Y". Links to youtube material is nice effort, but when it's required that I watch long clips, that I didn't like.

As of the two clips he changes to gunmode for maximum firepower to send the core into space to explode.

If Megatron can fire himself without problems, what does he need OP for then?

Any way I give up on it too.

I haven't given up on arguing my point of view. It still remains the same; gun mode is poor choice from Hasbro and makes no sense story telling wise or economically.

So far (in my opinion) your best arguement for your statement

"No other mode fits Megatron better than a gun."

has been that it's a nice twist that the character design one wouldn't think to be the strongest actually is. Your examples from cartoon are exceptions and if scrutinized more closely fall into non-believable cathegory.

[SureShot]

As a historian I'm used to backup my argumentation with a scource... ok I'll stop that in the future and make unsupported claims.

Sorry, wrote the earlier message badly.

I haven't asked you to "make unsupported claims". It's possible to write "Megatron fires himself in gun in episode X" and "Megatron can be seen bigger than human held gun in episodes X and Y". Links to youtube material is nice effort, but when it's required that I watch long clips, that I didn't like.

As of the two clips he changes to gunmode for maximum firepower to send the core into space to explode.

If Megatron can fire himself without problems, what does he need OP for then?

Any way I give up on it too.

I haven't given up on arguing my point of view. It still remains the same; gun mode is poor choice from Hasbro and makes no sense story telling wise or economically.

So far (in my opinion) your best arguement for your statement

"No other mode fits Megatron better than a gun."

has been that it's a nice twist that the character design one wouldn't think to be the strongest actually is. Your examples from cartoon are exceptions and if scrutinized more closely fall into non-believable cathegory.

No I see that, but you keep twisting the angle so I start off at zero each time.

If you don't like waiting then you could let the clip load to the end while doing something else, and when loaded you could fastforward it to 2:19 - how hard could that be !

A reason why Prime fires Megatron in gunmode could be something they decided at the storyboard for showing their characters and not so much the technological aspect of it.
Also turned around, Megatron couldn't load himself with that core in gunmode. Then the next statement would be why didn't he load it in robotmode and then transform ?.. well as Prime told him it was an extremely unstable core.

Yes my personal opinion is that the gunmode fits Megatron very well as of all I've written previously because of the originality in my point of view. It works in the story line which the cartoon clips have shown too, and that eventhough his alternate mode isn't used to the same extreme as Starscream etc. (also note that soundwave rarely used his ghettoblaster mode)
And how is what I stated so unbelievable ?
If it's was such a bad move how come people are still buying very expensive G.1 Megatron toys... if it was such a poor choice then Megatron would have been dead already by the 1st. season.

I think the design was succesfull, you do remember that most young boys would play cops and robbers with guns etc. So having a gun that could fire and had a scope, silencer and stockhandle was cool, and evenmore that it could transform to a robot was awesome !. Think of showing your best friend the new gun you got and then show him that is really was a robot that would surely make your friend pick up his jaw off the floor.
I'd bet that a hand sized gun that can transform to a robot would be choosen over a tank by a 8year old kid looking at which to buy or wish for birthday/christmas!
I remember seing the Megatron for the first time when I was 6years old and it was amazing, I wanted him so badly but never got him... and still hasn't.

Your best statement is that you think it was a wrong design both economically and story wise.. and that with nothing to back up upon it.
I'd very much like to get some numbers on all that, also to see if hasbro lost money on the choice of design.
Your statement is just as right or wrong as mine !

A character you can call misplaced in TF is Skyfire aka Jetfire, toy, character and appearance, totally and way off what the show is like, but still he became an extremely popular figure.

[Sunstorm]

it wouldnt surprise me if he had the ability to deside size

[predaking]

probably time to split the topic, but it seems the comments on the prototype are done anyway;

I never understood the argument about Megatron's gun mode not being a gun mode. The way I see it, is that his gun mode has a more powerful blast. I also always assumed that he was firing himself, but needed help for careful aiming.

Galvatron is a slight variation with some aiming abilities (treads etc), but has lost the disguise or hide features.

G2 and Armada Megatron has regained the ability to disguise himself, and also has the aiming capabilites of Galvatron.

So Galvatron is the poor design, G1 is genious!

[Skybolt]

G.1 Megs' boxart is the best of all TF's IMO  

I think I have to get that MP5 too.... Oh wait not that kind.... a MP-05  

[Osku]

Sorry about the continuing off-topic discussion people. Will check if I can split the discussion to two threads. Software for this board is terrible in that aspect.

If you don't like waiting then you could let the clip load to the end while doing something else, and when loaded you could fastforward it to 2:19 - how hard could that be !

You assume that everyone has unlimited net access and broadband connection!

A reason why Prime fires Megatron in gunmode could be something they decided at the storyboard for showing their characters and not so much the technological aspect of it.
Also turned around, Megatron couldn't load himself with that core in gunmode. Then the next statement would be why didn't he load it in robotmode and then transform ?.. well as Prime told him it was an extremely unstable core.

Yes my personal opinion is that the gunmode fits Megatron very well as of all I've written previously because of the originality in my point of view. It works in the story line which the cartoon clips have shown too, and that eventhough his alternate mode isn't used to the same extreme as Starscream etc. (also note that soundwave rarely used his ghettoblaster mode)
And how is what I stated so unbelievable?

"No other mode fits Megatron better than a gun"
is very different from
“the gunmode fits Megatron very well”

Is it believable situation that OP transforms Megatron with his hands? Why didn’t Megatron just let OP load the core and then fired himself? Is it believable that Megatron aims and fires in the air without any kind of support?  

->My problem with the gun mode is that it can’t realistically be a useful alternate mode. Especially not with a character like Megatron.

If removed the magical ability to fly and fire and aim himself in gun mode in cartoon -> you have a similar situation as in Marvel comic. In the more realistic concept Megatron’s alternate mode is mostly useless. Gun mode is useful only if he has someone to carry him.

But if we’re discussing of cartoon, on a less serious side. How would it have gone if Galvatron would have remained hand held gun?

--

Starscream: Who disrupts my coronation?
Galvatron: "Coronation," Starscream? This is bad comedy!
Starscream: ...Megatron? Is that you?
Galvatron: Here's a hint! Cyclonus, catch me!
[-> Cyclonus fires Galvatron destroyin Starscream, Galvatron transforms again]
Galvatron: Would anyone else atempt to fill his shoes?
Rumble: Eh, what'd he say his name was?
Frenzy: Cyclonus, I think.
Decepticons: All hail Cyclonus! GYCLONUS!
Galvatron: No! MY name is GALVATRON!
Frenzy: Oh, sorry. My bad.
Decepticons: All hail Galvatron! GALVATRON!

--

Here are the original quotes, if someone (hah) doesn’t remember the scene.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Transform...mers:_The_Movie

Soundwave’s tape deck mode fits the character and his role (communication, espionage) better.

If it's was such a bad move how come people are still buying very expensive G.1 Megatron toys... .

-that’s what people remember from their childhood, nostalgy
-because there is limited amount of Megatrons around; original toy was fragile -> hard to find in good condition
-Hasbro can’t sell reissues, because of US law

if it was such a poor choice then Megatron would have been dead already by the 1st. season.

Did Hasbro even have a chance to change leaders between 1st and 2nd season?

Hasbro did get rid of gun mode in 1986 movie toys line, when Megatron was replaced by Galvatron. Note that Rodimus that replaced Optimus had the same alternate mode (truck), but Galvatron was changed so that it had cannon mode plus a futuristic hand weapon mode (which was used once in comic IIRC, not sure about cartoon).

I think the design was succesfull, you do remember that most young boys would play cops and robbers with guns etc. So having a gun that could fire and had a scope, silencer and stockhandle was cool, and evenmore that it could transform to a robot was awesome !. Think of showing your best friend the new gun you got and then show him that is really was a robot that would surely make your friend pick up his jaw off the floor.
I'd bet that a hand sized gun that can transform to a robot would be choosen over a tank by a 8year old kid looking at which to buy or wish for birthday/christmas!
I remember seing the Megatron for the first time when I was 6years old and it was amazing, I wanted him so badly but never got him... and still hasn't.

I didn’t want gun Megatron. It didn’t look like the Megatron I saw in comics. I also think I wouldn’t have had one, my parents wouldn’t have bought a toy gun for me. I know I’m not the only one who had (or would  have had) the same problem with a toy gun.

Later on I tracked down G2 tank Megatron, even if I had only seen that mode in G.I.Joe G2 prologue. For me it looked like Megatron (mostly because of head mold) and the mode in my opinion fitted the character.

Your best statement is that you think it was a wrong design both economically and story wise.. and that with nothing to back up upon it.
I'd very much like to get some numbers on all that, also to see if hasbro lost money on the choice of design.
Your statement is just as right or wrong as mine !

Do you really expect me to have access on Hasbro’s data of sold figures? But here’s few points.

I think we can agree that Optimus Prime and Megatron are the biggest selling names in Transformers merchandise?

How many versions of Megatron are there as gun? Original, few Japanese reissues, WST and now upcoming Masterpiece edition.
http://www.tfu.info/1984/Decepticon/Megatr...on/megatron.htm

Let’s compare the situation to OP. How many versions of OP there are as a truck?
http://www.tfu.info/1984/Autobot/OptimusPr...ptimusprime.htm

Hasbro has been able to use OP = truck time and time again. In Megatron’s case gun mode only once. Or for example these Masterpiece toys. Hasbro released Optimus (twice at the moment), but can’t release Megatron because of US laws.

Then there’s the recognizability. People buy easier new versions of truck Ops, but may pass Megatron (tank, jet etc.) as it’s not “real Megatron”. You’re propably a good example of that.

[SureShot]

This is getting really ridiculous, I already explaineed why O.P transforms Megatron etc...

No Megatron didn't come back in gun form because of US law.

And why Galvatron isn't a gun explains itself since its a part of the story line.

Can we agree that it's not just Megatron that suffers from the difference in the cartoon and comic environment ? A whole damn lot of TF's do... why is Fort Max a "midget" in the comics etc.

So you never had a toy gun as kid ? I had lots and I know many who also did etc.. and I've even got around real ones too. Maybe that's the core of the problem, you don't like guns because of the symbolic and associations to it ? I don't know.

Anyway you're so predetermined that you're right that any other opinion is swept aside. So whatever I would write would still be turned around and some aspects ignored.
I rest my case with this, not because I give up. simply becuse it's to no avail.

[Osku]

This is getting really ridiculous, I already explaineed why O.P transforms Megatron etc...

No Megatron didn't come back in gun form because of US law.

And why Galvatron isn't a gun explains itself since its a part of the story line.

Galvatron not being gun has nothing to with the storyline. If Hasbro had wanted to make Galvatron a gun, they would have. If gun mode had been a  good choice, Galvatron would have been a gun.

Can we agree that it's not just Megatron that suffers from the difference in the cartoon and comic environment ? A whole damn lot of TF's do... why is Fort Max a "midget" in the comics etc.

I don't see how Megatron "suffers" from the difference. Illogicality in cartoon (all decepticons flying) ables Megatron to move by himself in gun mode. Gives him more mobility in robot mode as well. In the comics he hasn't got that ability -> weakness of having gun mode as alternate mode is more apparent.

So you never had a toy gun as kid ? I had lots and I know many who also did etc.. and I've even got around real ones too. Maybe that's the core of the problem, you don't like guns because of the symbolic and associations to it ? I don't know.

Your comment:
Assumption based on relatively little information? - Yes.
Underestimating me as a person? - Yes.
Pompous? - Yes.
Offensive? - So and so.

Do I like my (Diaclone) Robocolt? Yes. Did I go to a lot of trouble getting guns for it? Yes. Have I posted about the toy before on NTFA? Yes.

Me, irritated? Yes!

Anyway you're so predetermined that you're right that any other opinion is swept aside. So whatever I would write would still be turned around and some aspects ignored.
I rest my case with this, not because I give up. simply becuse it's to no avail.

Bullshit. You asked me to back up my argument (Megatron = gun wasn't a good choice), which I did. Toy situation (availability, economics), gun mode concept in more realistic continuity (comics).

Comics you don't comment. Toywise you don't give counter arguement for my examples, but decide to post that the problem is that I don't like guns. Convincing?

What I am ready to give you, is that Megatron as a gun works partly in cartoon. But to make it work, cartoon has to make "short cuts" (again: flying, aiming in gun mode, Megatron allowing OP to fire him even when it's not absolutely necessary etc.).

[Stolpen]

Lainaa (SureShot @ 28 Marras 2006,19:12)
This is getting really ridiculous, I already explaineed why O.P transforms Megatron etc...

No Megatron didn't come back in gun form because of US law.

And why Galvatron isn't a gun explains itself since its a part of the story line.

Galvatron not being gun has nothing to with the storyline. If Hasbro had wanted to make Galvatron a gun, they would have. If gun mode had been a  good choice, Galvatron would have been a gun.

Didn't Galvatron have a "gun-mode" aswell?
Even if it never was shown in any cartoon or comic, the toy had a third mode, right?

[Groundsplitter]

Didn't Galvatron have a "gun-mode" aswell?
Even if it never was shown in any cartoon or comic, the toy had a third mode, right?

Correct.

[Inkku]

Didn't Galvatron have a "gun-mode" aswell?
Even if it never was shown in any cartoon or comic, the toy had a third mode, right?

Correct.

             ..Third.. Mode..
                    first time when i heard about that  O.O

[Stolpen]

here's one pictrure of it, although the yellow canon should be mounted aswell.

[Inkku]

here's one pictrure of it, although the yellow canon should be mounted aswell.

thanks..   *always something new..*

[SureShot]

This is getting really ridiculous, I already explaineed why O.P transforms Megatron etc...

No Megatron didn't come back in gun form because of US law.

And why Galvatron isn't a gun explains itself since its a part of the story line.

Galvatron not being gun has nothing to with the storyline. If Hasbro had wanted to make Galvatron a gun, they would have. If gun mode had been a  good choice, Galvatron would have been a gun.

Can we agree that it's not just Megatron that suffers from the difference in the cartoon and comic environment ? A whole damn lot of TF's do... why is Fort Max a "midget" in the comics etc.

I don't see how Megatron "suffers" from the difference. Illogicality in cartoon (all decepticons flying) ables Megatron to move by himself in gun mode. Gives him more mobility in robot mode as well. In the comics he hasn't got that ability -> weakness of having gun mode as alternate mode is more apparent.

So you never had a toy gun as kid ? I had lots and I know many who also did etc.. and I've even got around real ones too. Maybe that's the core of the problem, you don't like guns because of the symbolic and associations to it ? I don't know.

Your comment:
Assumption based on relatively little information? - Yes.
Underestimating me as a person? - Yes.
Pompous? - Yes.
Offensive? - So and so.

Do I like my (Diaclone) Robocolt? Yes. Did I go to a lot of trouble getting guns for it? Yes. Have I posted about the toy before on NTFA? Yes.

Me, irritated? Yes!

Anyway you're so predetermined that you're right that any other opinion is swept aside. So whatever I would write would still be turned around and some aspects ignored.
I rest my case with this, not because I give up. simply becuse it's to no avail.

Bullshit. You asked me to back up my argument (Megatron = gun wasn't a good choice), which I did. Toy situation (availability, economics), gun mode concept in more realistic continuity (comics).

Comics you don't comment. Toywise you don't give counter arguement for my examples, but decide to post that the problem is that I don't like guns. Convincing?

What I am ready to give you, is that Megatron as a gun works partly in cartoon. But to make it work, cartoon has to make "short cuts" (again: flying, aiming in gun mode, Megatron allowing OP to fire him even when it's not absolutely necessary etc.).

You never backed up on the fact why gunmode was a poor choice you only stated that afterwards he came in many different modes. No statistics, numbers, figures to back it up with other than your own subjective assumption.

What set me off was your comment on that you "didn't like " that I actually took the time and effort to find and prove that Megatron could fire on his own, that appeared very arrogant to me. Later you back that comment up writing not all have broadband, that's a fair argument which you should have used in your argumentation.. the other appeared very cold to me.

Me, irritated? No not at all, just dissapointed.